If monero is kicked out of all the exchanges in

the world, how would someone assess the value of 1 XMR?

1 xmr = 1 xmr

Xmr/heroin pair

1XMR is 1XMR, but practically it's useless. Say, I can sell a sack of coffee bean at 0.001 XMR since I don't know it's value. Whereas, some one in the next county will sell a sack of coffee bean at 0.01 XMR. It will create problems since there is no common understanding of value.

no, you are saying that something is worthless and then saying that it have value, in the end it doesn't matter if it's backed by dollars, bitcoin, coffee or weed, it's all a value that make people use the coin

You are referring to the issue related to value of every physical as well as non-physical asset, including fiat. This is not Monero specific. May I ask you how much is 1BTC now? 😊

1$ in US has a different value than 1$ in RU now that in Russia there is a big request of safer Fiat compared to the ruble

I am not saying that something is worthless and then it have value... I am saying that exchanges offer a critical function of assessing demand and supply and alloting a value. This valuation is tha foundation on which I do my business. If exchanges disappear, I cannot value how much my monero is worth. So i will hesitate to do any business with Monero since I have a fear that I may be overpaying or undercharging the goods or services.

Again. You are referring to the issue related to value of every physical as well as non-physical asset, including fiat. This is not Monero specific. May I ask you how much is 1BTC now? 😊

Or may I ask how much is 1$ worth

You are wrong, at least to a point. How many of people that use FIAT on daily basis even give a heck about exchanges? They care how much 1 unit of their fake gov money is worth in terms of how much they can buy for it, how many days can they pay rent for, how much food is it etc, exchanges are a big level representation of that and do not play that big role when currency is actually used

Monero will not dissappear from DEXs

Precisely. The eternal misunderstanding of price vs value

it can after Seraphis implementation as it will break literally every single one implementation of swaps/dexes/wallet services etc.

1 BTC is around 39k USD. I know this because there is an exchange. In exchange, there is a bidding process happening for BTC in exchange of USD. Suppose there was no exchange and I have 1 BTC. I don't know how much it's worth. So if I want to buy a car in exchange of BTC, I will hesitate because of the fear of overpayment.

what would happen to that price if suddenly all exchanges would delist bitcoin, but it will be continued to be accepted at merchants?

Seraphis

thanks

Ever heard of exchange rates? Hyper inflation in Venezuela? How did the Venezuelans understood that their currency is not even worth equivalent to toilet paper? It's all because of fucking exchanges. They are continuously monitoring the value of 1 Venezuelan currency in terms of all other currencies in the world. You guys are thicker than a whale omlette

Yeah.... Wrong. You refer to a digitally available exchange as divine point an eternal holy grail. You won't believe it but in 90s (and thousands years before), we didn't have that exchange information and were still capable to determine the value and therefore price of an asset. Miraculous isn't it?

the exchange rate is a representation of value, and value of that currency (simillary to PLN in poland) started to lose value probably because some people printed too much of it and it went to hands of people

Exactly, now you are coming close. They could assess the value of their currency because of a COMMON marketplace. They know how much others are ready to offer for your goods, how much other goods are being traded in exchange of their currency. It will not work in a privacy coin, where the seller and buyer do not have a reference point to assess the valuation of XMR. Tbh, this will work on a big website like Amazon, where you can atleast compare with other goods and services

How people measured value before bitcoin was invented, I mean it's not like bitcoin is around for less than 20 years

Very true

XMR/anything pair

They couldn't assess the value of BTC if there is no exchange and everyone only mined the BTCs. Perhaps, it's value is more than the value of electricity+ depreciation cost of CPUs. thats all.

well in early days, before exchanges, 10'000 BTC was worth 2 pizzas

This anything pair will work only if there is a common marketplace which is accessible to all the users of XMR, where a lot of goods are sold and bought. It will not work for XMR, because the txs are kept as a secret deal between buyer and seller.

is there a common market place for gold? That is available in every country? or rather there is ton of small marketplaces that dictate the value that is then represented on exchanges?

There is a fucking exchange rate for gold.

No

No it is not. The exchange itself, as an information intermediary, is not essential. The value is always related to the agreement in between two parties.

I am questioning the foundation of this agreement. On what basis did those two parties agreed on the price if there are no exchanges?

on the basis on how hard it is to obtain both things in a transaction

You confuse exchange rate with the exchanges

Please don't play around with words and give it a spin. Come to the point. Can you explain with an example? Suppose I want to sell a car. I don't know whether to sell it for 1000 BTCs or 10 BTCs. Neither my buyer knows. Suppose if I sell my car for 10 BTC and next week my neighbour sells his car for 1000 BTCs, what am I supposed to do? One way is that I advertise the Car in a newspaper and let people bid for it. In this way I can arrive at fair valuation of my car in terms of BTC. So there is "advertising ". The key word is "advertising" Now considered a privacy coin? I am selling something which I don't like to advertise. How am I supposed to arrive at a conclusion on how much XMRs to accept?

Yes, how did they do it? Think of it. Thousands of years humanity did this. Miracle isn't it? Exchange and so called exchange rate is NOT the holy grail. Exchange rate can be and always is manipulated. Exchange rate on the exchange is only ONE of many indicators to be taken into consideration.

learn to read as per my last messages, people won't buy something if it's too expensive, today nobody would buy pizza for 10'000 XMR (even if no exchanges would be available) because nobody have that much xmr in his wallet (and even if somebody have he know how hard it was to obtain it, and knows that he would rather buy something else for that much)

Did someone already explain to you how inflation occurs?

WTF, you didn't understand the problem statement. The thing will work without exchanges only if there is a common marketplace. It will not work in the case of a privacy coin. If government is firm enough delist it from all exchange they will put the foot down on these common e-marketplaces too. So the holders of XMR cant value their XMR's worth eventhough the desire to enter into individual deals with a single buyer or seller

Don't confuse value and price

As long as BTC is on exchanges and XMR has just 1 place to trade with BTC (central or decentralized exchange) there will be a global price. Ex) 1 XMR = .5 BTC , and BTC drops to 10k , XMR would be worth 5k globally. If nobody sells ETH and BTC tanks -50% tomorrow , ETH will fall too as its biggest liquidity pair is in BTC and will naturally fall in value. You can always have a global price .

Gold & Silver have had global prices for centuries. Wether people want to respect those prices in personal dealings is their responsibilities.

It did not and will never have a global price. The number called exchange rate is only an indicator on how the pair was traded in a particular exchange within a particular candle. It doesn't tell you why it happened, how it is related to other open positions as well as it won't tell you if the trades are on real XMR or just a paper XMR. SAME with Gold, Silver, Palladium or Platinum or any other commodity.

1,000 market trades today at ~$200 means globally the price is recognized at $200 . If a Phone cost $200 which you could also buy with 1 XMR and 1,000 of these transaction happened today, 1 XMR is equivalent to $200 . Even if that is the only thing in the world you can trade your XMR for, someone may still give you $200 for 1 as it now has a recognized market price regardless of how liquid it is.

And remember usd is backed by gold, well they say it is 😂

With that example it doesn’t matter. If all XMR trades where only in El Salvador today , price would still be $200 because the largest liquidity pair (the phone / XMR ) is acting as the liquidity . If those countries now buy $10k car’s w/ XMR (creating a larger liquidity pair) then the price can substantially change depending on how much XMR is paid for the cars. If it it’s now 5 XMR / car , and 200 cars are sold then 1 XMR ~ $2,000 for that pair . The phone liquidity becomes less significant and the car market liquidity becomes more dominant. That rises the price of XMR in total.

Darknet markets dont care about govt regulations and count as a common marketplace for a privacy coin such as Monero

Not since Nixon in i believe 1971

Yep, and they said it was supposed to be temporary. Never fails.

it isn't backed by gold since Nixon

no it is not

It actually does matter a lot. The argument is about a common market information aggregator and its inevitability for the cryptocurrency to function as a means of exchange, store of value... If you exclude 1/4 of the planet's population from the participation in the creation of the exchange rate, your exchange rate is not global as it is not a common market, but it is a restricted and tweaked market. May I ask you what is an exchange rate of the car/XMR pair on the common market now?

You do understand this example was explaining liquidity pools and where value derives from and not a literal representation of XMR / CAR as a liquidity pool. As long as there is a way to swap BTC / XMR , there will be a way to value XMR . It is proportional to how many BTC you can get. Only reason you look at things compared to dollars is because it has the biggest liquidity pool in USD/EUR in the entire world of currencies. The only importance is the liquidity pools. The largest liquidity pools dictate the price.

The discussion was about inevitability of crypto exchanges or so called common market, as information aggregators, to determine the "true value" of XMR. The example with the XMR/car was an attempt to show that no common information aggregator is needed to determine the price of any pair on the market BTC/XMR, XMR/car or Platinum/orange-juice... But if such an aggregator exists, it can serve as one of many indicators to determine if an offered services or goods are priced well Ina given time, place situation and so on. If a market will long for such a service like an information aggregator for example, it will be delivered. But the market will live even without it.