Question for Stader Labs this initial contract seems to be based

on the distribution of 50 million hbars via the formula given such that 1 hbarx will be worth more than 1 hbar at the end of June.

Is this an accurate summary and if so what is the source of the 50 million hbars?

Yes. This has been funded by a grant from the HBAR Foundation.

Yes today it is worth 1.0002 which was low for beta. Tomorrow will be much higher. So if you started on day 1 u got 1 hbarx for each HBAR. Today a little less. Tomorrow a little less. But when you cash back in you get your HBARX multiplied by the rate which hopefully will be like 1.3

Was all 50 million funded by Foundation or just some start up costs?

Right and that will represent your return correct?

All of that and more. Stader has said these numbers are minimums based on participation and they have said they have enough to continue at some level even if native staking is delayed.

Yes exactly. When you unstake you would get that amount. As jeep said that would be minimum they did say they will be giving away bonuses and surprise and if popular enough suppsoedly may have a cre additional supervises for early folks.

I just don't believe that the Foundation which is giving out 100 million for ESG and 250 million (these in USD terms) for metaverse...would give $10-15 million to Stader Labs for a mere giveaway...what's the point?

50 million and most likely to get the staking attention and overall community more active I am guessing plus think they have long term plans with stader and saucerswap but totally IMO.

Oh sorry HBARS versus $$ but yeah think people were getting restless with the promise of staking q2 and stader prob helped save the day. Until native working

HBARF is supposed to drive ecosystem development and one of their focuses is DeFi. Bootstrapping Stader delivers an immediate TVL boost. HBARX is a liquid token. They are already in talks with Saucer and Hashport and have said you will be able to use HBARX to buy things like NFTs and have even mentioned a dex somewhere along the way. Stader does not develop these products - they present a big pool of HBARX that can be used with these products. It is to entice devs and companies to build on Hedera to take advantage of the HBARX pool. And it gives stakers a way to make even more returns on their HBARX while still collecting the value of staking IF they want to. It’s a brilliant strategy! They are taking big steps in multiple directions all at one time.

I guess TVL is a crypto concept of trying to tie up supply in order to drive prices...sounds like market manipulation to me and I think Hedera should have nothing to do with it. That's why I hold Hedera because of their integrity...to start playing these kinds of games turns me off. I want to see TPS not TVL.

TVL is a valuation tool for crypto, not a market manipulation. I want to see both. TVL as an indicator of network value and TPS as an indicator of network usage.

This definition of TVL makes Stader Labs effort one geared to raise TVL artificially ie for no apparent reason....so it's market manipulation

No, it’s not for no apparent reason. It’s to provide a liquid pool that DeFi products like Saucer can readily access. It’s absolutely functional.

OK I'll research liquid pools and try to understand them

And the thing is that if you don’t want to participate in any of the DeFi products you don’t have to. You just get the convenience of Stader staking for you.

I think there will be more allotted.

Why should the Foundation be funding this? What is being built here? All I see is a 50 million hbar giveaway....but I am going to try to wrap my head around the concept of stake pool and saucer swap type protocols

As far as a run on HBAR… If ten people stake 100 HBAR each there would be 1000 HBAR in the pool and 1000 HBARX. (If it was done on day one when the exchange rate was 1:1)Assume a 10% APY (for easy math) after 1 year there will be 1100 HBAR in the pool. Each 100 HBARX would be worth 110 HBAR. So if 9 people all pull out on Monday afternoon, my 110 HBARs would still be there available for me. The departing HBARX get burned and new stakers have to pay a higher exchange to join the pool so there is no risk to the HBAR I am owed. (In the example above at the end of one year a new staker would pay 110 HBAR for 100 HBARX so my position is not diminished) The math should bear out for any combination of stakers and rewards.

And I assume we will see evidence that Foundation Hbar provided for staking are added on daily basis, to cover that staking reward that is promised in return.

Yes - it’s completely transparent as demonstrated in the increase of the HBARX:HBAR exchange rate. We can use yesterday as an example. The exchange rate was 1 HBARX = 1.0002 HBAR. At the end of the epoch (day) the TVL was ~ 131mil HBAR. The emissions (reward) for this phase of the roll out is 300k HBAR/epoch. But Stader gets 10% of the emissions as their fee, so you take 270k/131mil=.00206. Add that to the current exchange rate and round it you get 1.0002+.00206=1.0023 which is the current exchange rate. So if you bought 1000HBARX on day 1 of the capped launch it cost you 1000HBAR. Today 1000HBARX would cost you 1023 HBAR. The exchange rate will go up every day so your HBARX will be worth more HBAR every day. You can do the math to check it.