I just drop this here... 47:52 - 58:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9uLKp2AONw&t=2872s

I don’t want to continue beating a dead horse here, but a few points: (1) I assume a reason you’re sharing this is a continuation of our discussion on Twitter. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re alluding to the fact that Yves didn’t up hold his promise to Dan of providing funding. Dan never even submitted a complete proposal, which is the course of action required for someone who wants funding. Maybe Dan or Yves can clarify if I’m wrong here. Moreover, Dans request for 2% inflation funding was not to my knowledge rejected. Instead, it just was never guranteed to be accepted. There’s a big difference here. (2) “ENF would become another Block1” - no one is bothered by the idea of having a rich entity providing funding and leadership to the network. Dan is suggesting the sole reason block1 never followed through on their promises is due to regulatory constraints. That is almost certainly untrue. They clearly had different priorities once they became so wealthy. Was regulatory scruntity a real issue? 100%, I’m sure it impacted lots of their plans. But it didn’t prevent them from doing very, very basic things. For example, Brendan specifically asked me “what can I do to show the community we care about EOS”. I suggested just coming to a discord chat and spending 15 minutes every few weeks/months just engaging the community. He was completely disinterested. Block1 has no interest in helping EOS - Regulations was just the perfect exit excuse.

The 7-hour fireside chat that info as well as community perspective, but I will not be returning to that Marathon of a fireside. 😅

We also don't want the fractally team to be the sole core dev team. I think if fractally checked out the top 22 coalition priorities and kept an eye on the RFPs or even proposed in advance based on that list, they would clean up, but I don't think Dan's interested in not being able to curate the chain to his desire. 🤷

We also don't want the fractally team to be the sole core dev team, we had that in Block One and it was terrible. Now all of the community developers are given a shot at core development and chasing some of their desires through their own blue paper proposals. I think if fractally checked out the top 22 coalition priorities and kept an eye on the RFPs or even proposed in advance based on that list, they would clean up, but I don't think Dan's interested in not being able to curate the chain to his desire. 🤷

If fractally bid competitively on the RFPs in that top 22 list, I have little doubt they would win most of the time. Dan calling the RFP process a formality isn't the case, the EOSIO coalition is ready to roll ASAP on those two priorities and there happens to be teams available and capable to do it ASAP, but using the RFP process from the beginning is necessary to establish a formal process. I'm sure in the future there will be a more runway between the RFP and submission deadline. Fractally should already have a proposal for scalability anyway, but I believe it was pulled because it was a take it or leave it package as opposed to selectable items.

I can't speak for Dan nor for Yves, obviously. I appreciate both of them, just to be clear. What I am just seeing is that the greatest innovator in the space, like the guy who is the reason we all invested into EOS in the first place, is now leaving our community because he feels like he has to "beg for scraps" - his words. I see people prefering the broken DPOS system, run by a cartel of exchanges who don't give a shit about EOS, over a decentralized governance approach because "it is too experimental".. as if DPOS wasn't anything but a huge experiment itself.. which has failed a long time ago btw. I won't go into all of it but I strongly disagree with your statement that no one is bothered by ENF becoming the next b1 leading the network. Are you serious? This is not what I signed up for. Crypto is about the exact opposite of what you describe. That's obviously what Eden/Fractally is all about. So yeah, I guess I just want to raise awareness and make people think if that is really what we want: Becoming the next Tron or whatever shitcoin which is basically run entirely by the corresponding foundation. Again, I appreciate Yves and everyone who is working to make EOS great again but I also would like to see us moving towards more decentralization and not more centralization.. because this is exactly what's happening here. Quite frankly: If it wasn't for the hope that the Eden bp selection could fix the EOS consensus some time in the future, I would have sold my entire stash - probably exclusively for Monero - a long time ago. From my understanding of the conversation here this is now entirely off the table for EOS... right? It would be great if someone from the ENF, who is responsible for the decision that EOS will now all of a sudden not adapt Fractally and let delegates select - as a start - at least 11 of the 21 bps, could clarify what is going on here. Because I highly doubt that this is just about a missing proposal that Dan didn't submit.. as you suggest. I mean, come on..

whoa dude

😂😂😂

It was my understanding that Dan submitted a proposal. Very superficial. To implement it, the ENF asked for more details that the ENF could submit to the Block Producers. Then Dan withdrew the proposal. There was never a proposal with enough details on the table to present to the BP's. At least that is how I understood and followed the whole thing.

he got multiple tens of millions from b1 equity buyout, community payed enough

I should clarify - my comment about ENF being “the new Block1” is about deployment of capital, and not about centralized control over the network. In the video, Dan indicates the problem ENF will run into is regulatory scrutiny. I’m distinguishing Block1’s lack of desire to contribute to EOS from the plans they had that were interrupted by regulatory scrtunity. ———- Fractally is also not off the table whatsoever. As a community, I think we just want to see it in action before we decide if we want to adopt it or not. I agree we would like to improve dPoS, but this is a theoretical solution that Dan hasn’t even explained totally how it works…how can you expect the network to agree to adopt it before it’s even been explained to the network? Don’t you think Dan unilaterally determining the future of EOS governance without debate would be problematic? It’s a public blockchain. We all know Dan is a genius, and I think we all would be interested in considering fractal governance once we see it in action. I’m very interested in how Fractally ends up going. It may be the solution. But why should we put the cart before the horse and agree to adopt it before it exists if Dan is intending on building it regardless?

let me ask you this: do you think if we would let the eden chief delegates pick 11 bps it would lead to a 'better' selection of the top 21?

I’m not sure. I could imagine unintended consequences leading to similar scenarios. Hand pick your friends for example.

Maybe good, maybe bad. How should we know? 😅

Beg for scraps? Are you serious?

Dans words, not mine

And looking at the whole situation, it doesn't look to me like the ENF pushed Dan and the fractally team away. To me it looks more like Dan and the fractally team want their own chain to develop faster and it would take too long on EOS to reprogram everything the way they want it.

They withdrew the proposal. It was not rejected by the ENF.

well, to me it seemed like this is exactly what happened and that he only chose to move to a new chain because of it. being able to develop faster is what he named as a side benefit of it.. but from my understanding it was supposed to get deployed on EOS to fix the dpos consensus... *among other things like funding and stuff*

pow would also lead to better selection imho

he can still deploy on eos, nothing is stopping him

well, having chief delegates selecting the bps would require a little bit more than just deploying a smart contract

not at all, his contact can be governed by fractally process just fine

Maybe we will get there. But wouldn't it be a bit unfair to only give the English Eden the power? Would it not have to be a combination of all the Edens? Eden is not ready yet. Chinese and Korean just started. Spanish is still in the very beginning.

I don't care if english, chinese or whatever.. it's about getting rid of the parasites in the top 21 :)

My feeling is, that it's not as bad as the picture many people paint.

you are not bothered that an exchange like binance for instance gets voted in with user funds, leeches rewards and doesn't even bother to list ANY other EOS asset on their exchange? same goes for almost all the others... it's a disgrace and not how dpos was supposed to work. If you were around at the launch there were so many BP start ups.. almost all of them are gone... because dpos is a total MESS.

But do you see the problem here? This was Dan’s invention, and it had unintended consequences. Don’t you think it’s realistic to expect something similar from his newest innovation? Therefore let’s wait and see it in action first.

err no? this is called innovation, bro

this is how communist party innovated, until it run out of people to innovate on

wrong, communists try the same thing over and over again.. you, Luka, want to stick to the status quo.. Dan wants to move on

Amen!

i want to move on too, many proposals from me

I was, too, at first. But I began to understand that exchanges also provide important services. Entry and exit ramps, account safekeeping, password resets in case of account loss. And if the market values this service more, that's fine. That's the free market. And DPOS is doing exactly for what it was designed for. If we don't like it, we have to ask ourselves how we can improve our services, that in that case users start to hod their money on the blockchain and not on Exchanges. We need to get better at what we do.

they do this because they have an economic interest this. they don't do this because they are bps for EOS but because the want customers. I think we would both agree that there are more valuable bps than exchanges

If you not listen to this one, I would recommend you to listen to James rant. I am very much aligned with him. https://youtu.be/KzxU1P_1LUE

There were dozens and dozens of teams “begging for scraps” for like 3 years, the one I’m a part of included. We were ignored the vast majority of the time without even a process to approach the one entity that everyone gave money to in order to drive development (which Dan was a part of). What we have now is far from “begging for scraps”, and is far from what B1 did all this time while we all struggled to get by. The “cartel” right now is allocating inflation (to the foundation) and causing a lot more good than anything we have previously had. I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying, that we need to make sure we are moving more towards decentralization. I for one hope we can use systems like this to help govern the chain more as time goes on - but as I see it right now those systems aren’t ready.

Again, those are Dans words, not mine. And when I hear this I wonder what is going on. That great contributors like yourself and your team had such a struggle over the past years is an absolute shame and absolute proof that dpos failed. That is exactly why I would love to see the eden/fractally approach happen on EOS. But apparently this is now off the table... I wonder why?

I’d agree, the one benefit it has brought us is liquidity and availability across a ton of exchanges. No other EOSIO-based chain, or not even many other chains in general, have quite as good of a reach. The problem is that they don’t want to be involved in governance. So either we split governance from block production somehow, or we give a better incentive for entities (like exchanges) to chase that draws them away from block production.

I know they are his words, I replied mostly to yours because of the context. I didn’t see that comment anywhere else 😅 I wouldn’t say anything is off the table, I certainly don’t see it as so. We (former CDs) pushed to keep Eden moving after it was abandoned because of this potential.

glad to hear that.. thanks for the insights

Haven't we seen this with Telos but go nowhere at least on their market cap and dapp development?

I don’t know a ton about the Telos public funding mechanisms, so I can’t speak to that. My gut is that there was never “enough” to make a significant impact, which is why the coalition of chains is exciting. Combined forces, captain planet, all that fun stuff.

It's similar to pomelo from what I've seen. Except maybe some voting rights. Also the quality of the proposals were weak. Lots of money being given away to marketing that went nowhere. I think their 2.0 DAO address that as some way to make it worth their buck. But is a tragedy of the commons sort of thing.

Yeah, the voting rights were definitely different, which may be a key part of it. I think Telos was using stake weighted voting, where as Pomelo followed quadratic funding in Gitcoin’s footsteps (which has done well in ETH afaik). That alone may have made a significant impact in participation between the two, since the impact on a proposal wasn’t influenced as much by the size of your bags.

At least. If there were still 100s of millions incentives to stay, how much can we assume was vested after 4 years with the company? Where did the capital come from that the 100s of millions of incentives would have came from? Same place as the tens of millions he easily collected already...from the EOS token holders in the ICO https://t.me/daneos/15889

Obviously it's a much smaller group of people in the fractal community now and pretty intimate. I'm getting to know a lot of people and develop trust and have a deeper meaningful communication as well as mentorship all these things were unavailable to me when I tried to participate with the EOS community, as some of you may know I was initially identified as a AI bot and banned (which honestly tickled me pink and I will never forget that). I have no idea how fractally will turn out honestly, but it's worth it for me to participate because of the relationships I am building and I will consider any Respect, should it have any value, a bonus.